Breeding Super pastel hypo x Axanthic

So from my understanding it’s possible but some people say it’s impossible,

I’ve seen ghosts x axanthic & super pastel x axanthic,

Shouldn’t super pastel hypo x axanthic be more then possible especially if the super pastel hypo looks more like a super pastel?

Thanks!

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I’m a little confused on what you’re asking here.
Are you asking if the pairing is possible? Or if the combo is possible?

I can’t imagine why the combo would be impossible, it’s a double recessive with a super pastel thrown in.

Are you asking about if that outcome is possible from a specific pairing?

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That’s been done, it’s called True Ghost, just with pastel added. Check out MM for some examples.

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Super pastel hypo x axanthic will only produce pastels that are het for axanthic and hypo.

I’ve seen your posts on reddit and nobody has said that it’s impossible, just that you won’t get a “true ghost” (hypo axanthic) from that pairing. Which is true

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I was wondering if that’s what they were asking, but just wanted clarification on the wording.

Agreed with @chesterhf, you will not get any visuals out of that pairing.

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Except for Pastel

You can do that calculation here:

All offspring will be Pastels, het for both Axanthic and Hypo

I think the confusion here is in the way you are wording this.

“X” = Pairing.
I think you mean “+”…

These are two different equations.
Ghosts x Axanthic = Normal, double hets.
Ghosts + Axanthic = True Ghost

So Im interpreting your question as “has a Super Pastel + Hypo + Axanthic been produced?”…

Not that have been listed for sale on MM.
https://www.morphmarket.com/all/c/reptiles/pythons/ball-pythons?traits__in=23790-t&traits__in=24034-t&traits__in=23949-t&state=any

Now the literal question of CAN it be produced… 100%, without a doubt.
Both parents just need to be at least Pastel double hets.

The practical question of whether it would make sense to put the time and effort into this … not really.

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Should’ve said visual recessives lol, my bad!

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I knew what you were saying, I’m just being a 🫏

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More or less I’m wondering if pairing the offspring of first generation will result in black/white or even gray/black offspring on second generation,

I know I won’t get what I’m looking for off the parents,

But I’m wondering if it’s possible down the line,

Some people told me it’s not possible at all,

Some people said it’s possible but will take long.

My question is tho it isn’t impossible to reach my goal from breeding the offspring of the parents correct?

Yes I understand I should have been more specific can I not accomplish my goal with the offspring?

Plan is to pair the parents,

Then down the line pair the offspring to reach my goal.

You say it’s not worth it so I may just cut my loss on this female being my x Axanthic & find a true super pastel but I definitely wouldn’t mind putting the time/work into the pairing since I have a good feeling about future clutches from the offspring.

Appreciate it, Thanks!

Also how is Desert ghost x Axanthic possible?

I’ve seen several people get white & black offspring off the first clutch I just don’t understand how that’s possible if what your saying goes for all hypo?

Desert ghost (Hypo) x Axanthic (Axanthism)

Editing for clarification: this first section is about the post above regarding breeding axanthic to desert ghost.
It isn’t possible. It is a recessive, so unless both parents carry the genes in some form (het or visual) you will 100% get only double hets.

The pairing you just listed will provide you with 100% het axanthic 100% desert ghost. All offspring would have these genetics.

I would also avoid breeding siblings together. Beeeders will breed a snake back to one of its parents, but breeding siblings from what I understand usually isn’t recommended.

If you tried to breed the siblings together, it’s possible you hit a super pastel axanthic (ghost)hypo,

What @eaglereptiles said above is true for ALL recessive genes. Not just ghost, or axanthic, or desert ghost, etc. each parent has to have a copy of the gene in order for it to be visual in the offspring.

Regarding the time it takes, it’ll be a minimum of 2-3 years after you get the offspring. Before you can breed them, which would be assuming they’re up to size and choose to breed. Not always the case.

To recap:
Breeding a super pastel hypo to an axanthic will give you all babies with:
Pastel 100% double het ghost(hypo) axanthic
If these were paired together, you have a 1/64 chance at getting a super pastel ghost(hypo) axanthic (double visual recessive).
Breeding any offspring back to either parent will not give you a super pastel (ghost)hypo axanthic, no matter how you pair them.

I personally wouldn’t commit to 3+ years of time for a 1/64 chance, when you could potentially get animals that could achieve your goals faster. That’s a personal preference.

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Hypo, no desert ghost here.

Hypo (also known as ghost) is not the same as desert ghost, which is completely separate recessive morph.

It is impossible to get what you want from the the first pairing, by breeding the offpsring together you have a (low) chance of getting a true ghost. For the most part you’re just going to produce pastels that are hets and pos hets

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Yeah, I made an edit as I realized my wording wasn’t exactly clear what I meant. I was referring to his comment

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Yep, the offspring of that clutch bred to one another can give you results of Super Pastel Hypo Axanthics

This should help.

Recessive – with the traits in this list, both parents need to be either “het” or “visual” for the trait in order for the offspring to be “visual”.

Inc Dom / Dom - with the traits on this list, only one parent needs to have the trait to be expressed visually in the offspring

Two things to unravel here:

1. Axanthic is the trait causing the black and white colour. Axanthic = Lacks Red pigmentation, Yellow pigmentation or both.
2. Hypo does not make a snake black and white, just fades the tone down so it looks like it’s always in a shed cycle.

Head over to the Morphpedia and play around with a few of the tags. Also, check out the glossary.

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Ah okay that makes sense I was confused on that because there’s breeders saying they’ve used
Desert Ghost that’s non Axanthic Het so that’s where all the confusion is coming from,

So the plan for that is I’ll use the offspring paired to another VPI Axanthic once they are of age/size then once they breed I should get mostly White & Black,

I know this will take quite some time but I am prepared since I really really wanna breed my
own White & Black since they are so so hard to
find where I am in Canada

Thanks to all who replied to my post!

I really appreciate it✔️

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Depending on what male I choose this will be the parent offspring

Hypo super pastel/Super pastel hypo x Axanthic ___

=

[Pastel (Pastel Jungle)]
Double Het Axanthic Ghost

[Pastel (Pastel Jungle)]
Double Het Axanthic - VPI Line Ghost

[Pastel (Pastel Jungle)]
Double Het Axanthic - Snake Keeper Line Ghost

Then Ill be pairing the offspring with a whole new Axanthic male & or Offspring x Offspring

=

Then I’m hoping for something like this/

I’d avoid using jungle for the calculator unless you have a jungle that you’re getting. It isn’t the same as as a super pastel.

Also breeding an offspring back to a different axanthic male will only give you a chance at pastel axanthic het hypo, unless you’re getting an axanthic that is het or visual for hypo already.

I’m not sure what you put in for the parents on the MorphMarket calculator but that isn’t correct for the pairings you’ve described. I’ll try to help type something up for you in the morning, I’m off for the night.

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Keep in mind there are multiple lines of axanthic that are NOT compatible with each other. So whatever line you pick you will need to keep with that line.

There does seem to be some synergistic effect of combining axanthic and desert ghost (and some also say pastel goes well with both) that makes a nicer black and white snake. And to really knock it out of the park add clown which unexpectedly (to me anyway) produces an almost California king snake looking black and white. Search for pictures of JKR’s VPI axanthic clown desert ghost.

It got me trying to figure out how to add dg to all my projects. Unfortunately I’m very late to the game with my first possible quad het axanthic clown hypo dg girls hatched in 2022. And I’ll need more tests to become available and lots of luck to even know if I have a chance.

Sure the 1:256 odds per egg of hitting the quad visual from a pair of quad hets are astronomical but the odds of producing normals goes down with more hets too and I have a few codoms mixed in. Should be a blast trying even if it does take years and years and years.

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