Gene identification in my first clutch

Hi everyone :slightly_smiling_face: Since my babies are finally switching to f/t pinkies and are about ready to be listed for sale, I would need your help with figuring out their genetics (because I suck at it myself)

Parents are banana enchi 100% het pied dad (male maker) and butter pastel spider mom with a low possibility for pied as well

Here is the whole clutch in different light

And individual babies

Girl 1 - definitely spider but I have no idea about the rest

Girl 2 (she is a wiggler so in hand it is)

Boy 1

Boy 2 - now this is tricky because i have no idea what that white patch is. A painfully low expression piebald? A paradox? I dunno, but he has a little white spot near his left eye too

Any help would be greatly apreciated


I thought spider gene is a bad gene with defects?

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The white patch is a ringer, and he will very likely turn out to be het Pied given the pairing.

Do you have pictures of the parents too?


I’ll take a stab at it but I’m not good at it.

Girl 1- Pastel Spider
Girl 2- Pastel (maybe Pastel Enchi?)
Boy 1- Banana Enchi
Boy 2- Pastel Banana (prob. het pied)

Am I close?

Spiders have a small wobble (balance issue) when they are stressed. A super spider is lethal so a spider can’t be paired to a spider. The spider gene effects are very small, but some people just prefer to avoid it.

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as a note there are varying levels of wobble.


But non the less the wobble has detrimental affect to the animal from balance to movement and feeding.

I have a traumatic brain injury which one side affect is a balance problem so i have fallen numerous times and caused additional problems including breaking my back at L1 vertebrae. While it doesn’t always affect me it does affect me non the less, motion sickness is another affect as well as light sensitivity and nausea. Id assume that spider affects the cental nervous system ( since it affects mobility) so there may be issues that we cannot actually see since animals cannot tell us whats wrong its impossible to know what they are experiencing. Imo i think its not good to use Spider since it has know issues. To me this goes right up there with squishy faced dogs and cats to munchkin kitties and doggos created without buttholes( yes in Japan thats a thing) guess they have an aversion to seeing buttholes.


I think this would be a good read. Ethics of Spiders and Spider Breeding A lot of points that have been brought up or could be brought up are likely addressed here. Opinions on breeding spiders are all over the board.


This thread isn’t about the ethics of breeding the spider gene. nswilkerson1 linked to that thread. Can we stay on topic? :sweat_smile:


Would you be able to provide pics of the parents? I’m seeing what looks like leopard in two of the hatchlings, and it’s throwing me off. I’m wondering if there’s something in one of the parents that wasn’t identified…

IF one of the parents has leopard that isn’t identified below are my thoughts…

To me, it looks like the following
Girl 1: bumblebee (pastel spider)
Girl 2: pastel leopard
Boy 1: banana butter leopard (not the most confident with this one, but that’s my best guess)
Boy 2: banana leopard, with a cool looking ringer and poss enchi….

Parent pics will help, otherwise it’s just speculation, and I could be wrong.


Boy two is a low expression pied based on the patter disruption.

Albino low white pied for reference


@nswilkerson1 is pointing out what I’m seeing as well and why I asked about pictures of the parents

As far as any one being Pied - the colors and pattern just don’t look Pied to me


Yeah … that no butthole thing just sounds like an online joke like bonsai kittens, not an actual thing.

Thirding request for parent pics. I also think the 2 bananas look like leopard or something else might be in there…
Wondering if maybe dad was leopard not enchi


It is a thing though they breed them from corgies

That’s because corgis with the T gene for short tails are prone to spinal defects and atresia ani.

Because people are moving away from cutting the tails on corgis, trying to breed for the short tail gene causes developmental issues or fetal death.

I believe it’s the same for manx cats as well.

Here’s a study done regarding that as well:

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I agree with @nswilkerson1 on the IDs, with the caveat that I don’t see enchi in any of them. The three with leopard all look too busy to have enchi and I don’t see it in the bumblebee either.

As someone who has bred a lot of pieds, I’m also certain that Boy 2 has a ringer and is not a visual pied. A pied would have more pattern distortion all over the body. You wouldn’t be able to pick out the leopard pattern so easily.


Second thoughts I’m in agreement on no enchi being present. I think I was too focused on figuring out where the parents fit in, and added it as a possibility.


Ok guys, I apologise for the late reply, but i just had busy few days and MM wasn’t exactly a priority. As requested, here are parents:

Male that is supposed to be a banana (male maker) enchi 100% het pied (both malemaker and pied confirmed by his parents and superbanana brothers in his clutch)

And the first time bred queen bee, so spider butter pastel with a possible piebald

I apologise for baby pictures, but as it turns out i don’t have any current ones in good lightning and i am out of home until tomorow so these will have to do


Was there leopard in the male’s parents? He really looks leopard or leopard enchi to me.