just wanna learn something from this since i get this 2 as possible het pied and either gravel/yb.
this first photo is possible het pied. is there any other markers can see for this? as this gals is 3 gene combo (spider fire yb ph pied) coz based on what i watched and read, once het pied got mix with a lot of gene the marker disappeared, and others also said that het pied is an incomplete dominance (which i believed in, problem is what if like this mixed gene)
Recessive genes have no het markers. I’m personally not great at telling gravel from yellowbelly but if you post some better pictures I’m sure someone could help you identify them.
No disrespect intended, but I would argue that there are some markers or pattern changes that are influenced by recessive genes. By way of example, if a proven het Pied were bred to a Normal, I would definitely choose a baby that had the stronger “train track” markings on the ventral side of the tail. Another example is, if a proven het Clown were bred to a Normal, I would select a hatchling that had higher white outlining around the alien heads. Het Ghost will often reduce the pattern a little from the typical pattern. I would concede that none of these are 100% guaranteed, and the lack of, doesn’t 100% prove to the contrary. However, I have found these “markers” do trend to the positive side. Where it gets dicey is when other genes are in the mix, like YB, that has it’s own distinctive patterning in the same place where one would look for the “train tracks”, or Enchi that already has a reduced pattern, etc.
Not scientifically speaking, recessive traits have no het markers. If you can visually identify them they would be incomplete dominant traits not recessive.
No one, including the guy that discovered the gene, has ever been able to differentiate Gravel from YB. So your only way of knowing is to breed it out.
.
.
.
On the topic of alleged “markers”… As Shaun correctly notes, by definition, a recessive gene does not display a phenotype in the het form.
That said, I (and a few others) do believe that Pied is a very subtle inc-dom morph. The phenotype of the het form is significantly more complex than just the “train tracks” (which I actually feel are the worst indicator given the prevalence with which they occur spontaneously) and can be difficult to pick out without a high degree of familiarity with the gene.
To the OP, you would need more pics of your animal - top, sides, head, back half - before anyone could even begin to guess as to whether it might be het Pied
Quick question can there be multiple phenotypes inside the “het”form? Specifically with ball pythons? Point being certain lines of pieds show different “het”pied phenotypes if pied is indeed incomplete dominant.
It is not so much that there are multiple phenotypes for one specific mutation as it is that there are likely a group of alleles, each with a slightly different phenotype. Like what we see with the Ivory complex or the BluEL complex or the BlkEL compex or the SuperBlk complex
This would make a lot more sense to me. As I have seen huge variance in known het pieds I’ve seen. I’m glad you understood my question made sense to me lol.
yes bro.thats y i mentioned based on what i read here coz u got topic before on pied being an incomplete dominance which i can be agreed, but with some more proof on my own.
Travis is the one who believes pied is incomplete dominant. I don’t believe it is but with anything willing to hear any educated or experienced opinions!
yes thanks thanks. with more study for me to do. i also want to prove to myself by using those train tracks to bring some more visual pieds. in that case i can really have peace on my mind of that inc.dominance of pied. hope to get more
soon.
yes yes. more study. here in phils. they considering those train tracks to be 100% het for pied. and actually i just realised few days back while reading here that yahhh hets from visual suppose to not have any markers, as if they would have, then that will be not a recessive. same with the scaleless head.
I’m a believer myself. Only because of what I see from experience. I’ve been working with Pieds now for 19 years and it’s pretty easy to spot for me. It causes lots of disruption in other genes.
