Looking for some opinions

Ok so I’m in a strange situation with a clutch I should not be having any trouble with.
Back story both the sire and dame were purchased roughly 2 1/2 years ago from different sources. Neither have ever been breed by myself. Not a lot of background on the Sire(champagne), but the dame(HRA, Poe. Het ghost)was purchased as an eight year old infertile snake, so I was told. But the price was way to good
Dame/Sire


He was being grouchy because I just didn’t have any projects for him. So I threw him in with the HRA for a few days. I’ve never had another snake with her as of that time but. Well this is what happened…
Norm, 3 HRA , 3 champ/HRA mixes and this random looking thing that my head just said oh Yellowbelly pastel. It took me like an hour to realize neither of those genes are anywhere in the mix. I did some looking into and comparing with the few other pastel yellow Bellies I have. And there are some differences.
I know there are possibilities of snake semen lasting 3 years, but even so I’m not entirely sure on pastel yb. Anyway here are some pics of it bigger today.


So A lot of pics but I wanted some good looks at it. Problem is the undersides are so wacky. They are like three stages. Pattern. Random fades coming up. The under sides that are a crap show followed by a perfectly clean belly all the way down to the tail, which in itself is odd. There is major fading everywhere yet the head barely looks like pastel. And the colors that are there are amazingly vibrant. Blacks are about as dark as it could get.
Finally this may mean nothing, but I’ve kept these snake on the same feeding schedule and exact size F/T. I’m pretty sure the HRA gene is in most because I can’t tell you when any of them has last skipped a meal. Well here most are together today.

This could be completely coincidence but he/she(haven’t really cared to sex this clutch) is no less than double the size of the next closest.
Well any help/opinions/or good lucks are welcome. It is just an oddball!

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It looks like a Pastel HRA. This would either be the result of retained sperm (they can retain for years) or the Champagne is actually a Champagne Pastel. I don’t have much familiarity with Champagne combos, so I can’t tell by looking at his picture. Maybe someone else can chime in.

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I know @saleengrinch has produced a lot of Champagne combos so maybe he will be able to lend an opinion.
I don’t work with Champagne but I do agree with Westridge on the snake in question being a Pastel HRA.
Nice clutch too, I love HRA and those are nice looking hatchlings.

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They look like single gene champagnes. Hra champagne don’t usually have any pattern and tend to have a ring near the vent. And pastel champagne are mostly white.

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Yep. Top Three in the last two pics are champagne . The bottom, left and right are HRAs and a Norm. The middle one is the one I can’t figure out.

@cn_wrngsdreptls I have an hra yellowbelly pastel if you would like to see a picture. And I would say the center snake is pastel hra and the bottom right is hra. 3 champagnes and 2 normals.

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@saleengrinch thanks a ton! I’ve never really dove deep into HRA just because I wasn’t expecting a clutch then. And really didn’t think 2 genes would be difficult to figure out. There weren’t a lot Yb, HRA, pastels to go off. And With the little head fade and zigged eyeline weren’t screaming HRA pastel. Also the belly looking yb but neither parent having YB or Pastel, I’d hate to miss identify (though with all my Fuss I’ve been making, I’ve definitely grown to love the look of this one so I gotta keep it) Also I was thinking that the bottom left was norm and the right and center were HRA but again, very little HRA experience. Honestly I’m very grateful for your time. If just pastel can do that to HRA I’m going to be working a new project rack into the mix.

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I work quite a bit with champagne and the gargoyle complex. So I’m pretty confident in my identifications. Here’s my male

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Yeah that guy is awesome. He even has the mask from scream on his side there! Hope he has a Jason mask on the side we can’t see! And trust me I’ll listen to the experts on this one. Love that something as random as this can flip interests in this hobby. Once again awesome you could take the time for me. Is there a way I can look into some of your Gargoyle stuff. I’d love to see that.

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No problem!!! Always happy to help any way I can! Hra can make some real nice combos! I currently work Huffman and green pastel(A line of hra) also cinny, black pastel, and enchi. All of these are on the same locus and therefore are all allelic. Love is in the air! Has a lot of pictures of some of my gargoyle stuff.

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Nice. I’m going to check that out. I’m a huge fan of cinnamon. Amazing what that gene can do. Black pastel… that ones a must as well simply in my opinion mixing with albino. Beautiful animals. Noticed chocolate and albino look a lot like BP and albino. Does that gene run in the same circle with BP?

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Oh, man. Those either will be some amazing clutches or already were. Awesome looking pairings!

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Chocolate is a incomplete dominant gene. It is not allelic with the gargoyle complex. It has been proven allelic with spotnose. I suspect it is allelic with sable as well. Albino is a recessive gene. Black pastel to champagne pairings can make snakes that look pied as well. Huffman and Hra can as well with champagne. Some of my favorite snakes I’ve hatched have come from champagne x gargoyle complex pairings.

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Thank you I really appreciate that! Those are all this seasons pairings! And I couldn’t resist a chance to post a picture of one of the nicest snakes I ever produced!:wink:

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I’d post that one too. Feel free to post it a couple more times whenever… if it’s looks ever get to overwhelming for you. Just ask for my address I’d be more then willing to relieve you of that burden… for no charge whatsoever… :wink:

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Fair enough!!! I’ll keep that in mind lol. here is a picture of the whole clutch!

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Wow. That’s an impressive clutch! I’d sit on those just to watch them grow, but then I’ve bought snakes just because watching them grow seems nearly as rewarding to me as the breeding. That would be an exciting one.

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These guys are from a couple years back. I still have the one female that I posted the picture of. I wish I could keep them all!

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Smart words spoken for sure.
That’s why I only buy hatchling snakes, watching them grow is the most rewarding part of keeping I think.

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When you get to the point were the majority of your collection is snakes you hatched out… That’s an amazing feeling!!!

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