So this might be one to add to Morph Issues but I would like to hear some personal experiences with this.
In @jkobylka latest video he talks about working on a bunch of Champagne combos to try and work out a good relationship for future projects.
Last year he produced a Champagne Spotnose Leopard Enchi which looked amazing but for some reason or another had one silver and one black eye.
Then this year he went on to produce a clutch from a Enchi Batman X Enchi Champagne het clown and got a Enchi Champagne Spotnose Clown that also has one silver eye and one black eye.
Does anyone have any similar popping up in their Champagne Spotnose pairings?
I am wondering if it is just something that comes with the champagne gene considering it does some weird things like throw crazy ringers or become a pied look a like when it is heterozygous for pied. Will be interesting what others have to say regarding some of their pairing results.
I suspect the combo at work is Spotnose + Champagne. Some have theorized that they are alleles (I believe this), which can cause weird stuff.
I don’t know about spotnose. But champagne has been proven alleic to blackhead for sure. And hidden gene woma is suspected as well.
As I said in another thread, I’m pretty sure I proved Spider and Sable to be alleles, and someone else has proved Spotnose and Sable to be alleles. That would mean that Spotnose and Spider would be alleles, which would mean that Spotnose and Blackhead would alleles. So if Champagne has been proven allelic to Blackhead, that would make Spotnose and Champagne allelic.
I also would not be surprised if Champagne Spotnose combos turn out to have issues.
Yeah I wish I could verify for sure of each of them. And some of the combos are lethal. I believe you when you said you got all spider and sables. Feeling like something is missing lol.
@nathan_e I’ve made some wild pied looking champagnes. And none of them were het pied! I think champagne is just weird. Even the combos that are done many times never look the same. That’s what makes it fun and frustrating at the same time!
I think the only ones that are lethal are Spider x Spider, HGW x HGW, Champagne x Champagne, Spider x Champagne and HGW x Champagne (not 100% sure about the last one). However, Super Sable, Sable Spider, and Super Spotnose have issues, most severely the Sable Spider. Not sure about Chocolate. I have raised the Sable Spider, and he was wack, and I have produced Super Sables, which were wobbly and had failure-to-thrive issues.
Champagne x spider is lethal I believe as well. You said that just seen that lol.
Yes. They hatch and then rapidly die, like a Pearl (Super HGW).
In that video, Justin mentions that he has noticed a slight wobble. It was just a brief passing comment so I don’t know the severity.
@eaglereptiles I’ve hatched champagne sable. And they had a wobble. It’s along the lines of a spider. It wasn’t severe but it was there for sure.
I understand what allelic combos are and what it means but I guess I just never fully grasped why certain morphs are allelic with one another? At first I thought they would most likely be allelic if they were in the same complex but then I discovered that genes that are not similar such as spider and black head are allelic to one another. Do you know why that is or have a theory as to why?
I’m not sure I’m the best to explain it all lol. In every complex all the genes are allelic. The other genes kinda got dumped into the spider complex. But it’s not the same as the other complex. Not all the genes in the complex have been proven to be allelic. It’s a bit confusing. In the 8 ball complex and bel complex and so on all the genes in the complex are allelic. So when you combine two of these genes you create a acts like a super. So black pastel enchi bred to a normal would give you half enchi half black pastel. There will be no normals or black pastel enchis. The genes can look alike or totally different it still is allelic and makes a super form.
I have a champagne pastel orange dream girl pos yellowbelly girl with mismatched eyes. One eye is really black and one is greyish blue with a light spot in the top. So no spotnose but she is a champagne. Champagne can do very crazy things. One thing I really love about this morph.
The blue eye is a little lighter the in the picture but it’s not really light blue, but definitly a different colour than the other eye.
She is a little more nervous than most others and when we just had her she really showed a wobble. When I hold her she was moving like a rollercoaster, head down and curling up again. But now after almost a year I see no sign of wobble anymore. So it might bee there is another gene in her I don’t know. But it might also be that if the mismatched eyes are somehow genetic in some champagne’s it also creates wobble, or it’s just random. Hope to find out in the future.
On the expo last september one Polish breeder had several het pied champagne combo’s. They looked like the most beautifull pieds I’ve ever seen. Even the coloured parts had different colours, almost like paradox but then like watercolour flowing through each other. Hope our next year we can go for some het pied champagnes to.
It is because different variations of a gene sit on the same locus, which is the location in the chromosome. We call these variations alleles (hence us calling the morphs allelic). The group of morphs that sit on the same locus, we call a complex (completely made up hobby term). Being allelic and part of the same complex is exactly the same. It has zero to do with what the snake looks like and everything to do with genes being at the same locus.
This is because every single time baby snakes are made, one gene from a locus comes from mom and one gene from that same locus comes from dad. knowing all that is why I can tell you a spider blackhead bred to a normal will give you only spiders and blackheads. The spider or blackhead genes sitting on the same locus, only 1 will be given to the offspring.
Allelic and part of the same complex mean exactly the same thing. The problem with the spider complex and many suspected morphs to be in there is the lethal combos which make it really hard to prove out.
@lindasark It’s not necessarily the het pied giving you the ringers. I have hatched a lot champagnes that look pied and none were het pied.
@owalreptiles Then why are all the morphs put in the spider complex? If the are not all proven to be allelic? By grouping them like this it gives the appearance that they are all proven to be and considered allelic.